Friday, April 13, 2012

Base Melee Dmg or Crit Strike Damage? - Page 4

[:1]Sass, heres two oldtimers debunking your claims.

Recap:

20% total ed is the same as 20% crit, and IAS will improve the DPS of both of them by an equal amount. Finally, a good amount of both of them is better since crit has diminishing values at higher levels|||Quote:








My Mistake? Nowhere do you mention Fortitude armour, a ctrl-f for Fort only brings up the quoted post. Additionally the following is a direct quote from you. You state 300% ON the weapon.



So yeah, nice attempt at a dodge, but unfortunately you fail.

No reply to the other points? Or have you come to the realisation that both ED% and Crit% are important?

Edit:

You previously state this too:




I'm mixing thread then. I'd explained this somewhere and specifically said "like on Fort", but it probably wasn't here.

Sue me.





When exactly have I said that ED% wasn't important? I've said that it doesn't increase DPS as much as crit will.



The reason is that adding ED% takes more % than crit does to increase DPS by the same amount.



It's true that ED% changing DPS by 20% matches CS doing that. What keeps getting ignored is that ED% requires more and more ED% than previously in order to reach that 20%.



Crit hits diminishing returns eventually. Yes, it's capped at 100%. That's like having 100% enhanced DPS, not necessarily ED%.

If using the jewel example, you'd have to add 240ED just to equal that 100% ED. 240 CS would be beyond obsolete.|||For random fun, anyone considered +critical strike damage? Seems like it will be an important mod.|||Quote:








For random fun, anyone considered +critical strike damage? Seems like it will be an important mod.




Yeah. Especially on the barbarian who seems to have several crit damage traits and skills.|||Quote:








I'm mixing thread then. I'd explained this somewhere and specifically said "like on Fort", but it probably wasn't here.




It DEFINITELY wasn't here.


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Sue me.




When you make such pompous statements such as "I see your mistake", when the mistake was entirely yours then I feel the need to respond.


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When exactly have I said that ED% wasn't important? I've said that it doesn't increase DPS as much as crit will.




Except up to a point it does, and beyond another point it does. The conditions where CS will add more damage than ED are in a rather limited bracket (CS%<ED% and CS%<100). Outside of these conditions ED% will add equal or more damage than CS%.


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The reason is that adding ED% takes more % than crit does to increase DPS by the same amount.




Except it doesn't always. If you have 0% ED and 20% CS. Adding 20% extra CS will give less damage than adding 20% ED. In fact between 17% and 20% ED will give more damage than adding another 20% CS. Just as if you have 20% ED and 0% CS adding 20% CS will give better damage than adding 20% ED.


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It's true that ED% changing DPS by 20% matches CS doing that. What keeps getting ignored is that ED% requires more and more ED% than previously in order to reach that 20%.




As does CS% once you already have a CS%.


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Crit hits diminishing returns eventually. Yes, it's capped at 100%. That's like having 100% enhanced DPS, not necessarily ED%.




Having 100% CS with 0% ED is mathematically identical to having 100% ED with 0% CS.


Quote:








If using the jewel example, you'd have to add 240ED just to equal that 100% ED. 240 CS would be beyond obsolete.




How is this a pro for CS? Saying that after a certain point it's useless, while ED% just has a reduced effectiveness?|||What better out of +% crit and +% ED depends how much of each you already got.

Lets take +20% of both and apply each in turn to the following cases (in all cases assuming Crits give +100% damage):

1) Got no bonuses +20%crit gives 80%*100%+20%*200%=80%+40%=120% on average of base weapon damage. And +20% damage gives +120% base. So in terms of damage over time they are equal

2) Already got +20% ED:

then +20% Crit gives 80%*120%+20%*(2*120)%=96%+48%=144% average damage.

And another +20% ED gives 120%+20%=140% damage thats 4% less dps.

3) Already got +20% crit chance:

Then +20% more crit chance gives 60%*100%+40%*200%=60%+80%=140% damage.

And +20% ED gives 144% damage or 4% more dps.

As you can see from this the optimized %ED and %Crit is 1:1 for maximum DPS production. (If Crits are 100% damage increase, if its 50% it get sifted to 2:1 ED:Crit and 150% its 2:3 ED:Crit). Though of cause crit of 100% is the limit for crit improvement whereas ED can stack for ever though you need more and more to get a visible difference.

Hopefully Skills +% weapon damage is an additional modifier that applies on top of all the other +% damage sources.

Any source of +% damage that applies before or after the +% ED your looking at don't matter for the purpose of working out what is better to increase out of the two.|||Yeah, I think I'm done with this thread. Too many people getting prissy about the slightest thing.



I choose Crit. I'll take a multiplicative mod than a slower additive mod any day.|||Quote:








Yeah, I think I'm done with this thread. Too many people getting prissy about the slightest thing.



I choose Crit. I'll take a multiplicative mod than a slower additive mod any day.




My opinion of you has seriously gone down Sass.

I've even listed the mathematical conditions in which CS is better than ED, and you still spout drivel about CS being multiplicative and ED being additive.

For shame.|||I spelled it out in my post the optimum one to increase depends on how much much of each you got and how much extra damage a crit gives you.

%Crit is = %damage increase if Crits do 100% bonus damage but the second you got one the other one gives a higher DPS increase (in terms of DPS increasing you want to increase 1:1 with +100% damage on crit, with extra crit only becoming redundant at 100% chance, this is assuming that +20% crit means 20% more chance of a crit).|||Additionally if this character window is anything to go by (posted by Flux as the character window circa October 2010):

http://www.diablowiki.net/images/c/c...r-claymore.jpg

Crit isn't a 100% boost in damage.

The character in this window has a 37% crit chance, for 37% extra damage. Rather paltry in comparison to straight ED% it would appear.

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